Eastern Nebraska Growers, Jim & Karen Skinner
Jan. 2nd 2026
DATE OF INTERVIEW:
INTERVIEW ID:
PV-NE-GROW-01
STATE:
Nebraska
ROLE:
Grower
CULTIVARS:
Brianna, Marquette, Delaware
YEARS EXPERIENCE:
Jim and Karen Skinner live just east of Lincoln, Nebraska, on 11 acres they originally used for hay. When rising input costs made the hay “not worth it,” Jim started looking for a better way to make a small acreage help cover property taxes and become a meaningful retirement project. After trying a few small-scale ideas, they committed to grapes—something they could build carefully, enjoy outdoors, and grow into a real side business.
They learned by talking to growers, attending workshops, and they’ve navigated drought, herbicide drift, hail, and the constant challenge of finding harvest labor, yet they’re consistently told their fruit is unusually high quality. Their approach is practical and disciplined: careful training choices, strong sanitation (burning prunings), and detailed records that guide decisions year to year.
Tyler Bertsch
This is Tyler Bertsch, and I'm here with Jim Skinner and Karen Skinner. (Just east of Lincoln, NE)So I had some questions today about growing grapes. So how did you guys first get into growing grapes?
Jim Skinner
We have 11 acres of land here and we were doing hay back in the beginning. Having a guy come in and cut and bale it, and then just selling the hay. And I thought, "We gotta figure out a different way where we can make some money off of this little bit of land that we have here." And so I thought, “Deer Springs, they're just about a mile and a half from here that would be an interesting option to do, and I think I could make money.” My goal was to make enough money to help pay for property taxes.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, that's the thing, and Nebraska is a high property tax state.
Karen Skinner
And with our little hay thing, it wasn't worth it. We weren't getting anything because the gas prices went up, so fertilizer went up. It was a wash. So why are we doing this?
Jim Skinner
You're just basically keeping a cut, you know? For fire and all that stuff is the only reason behind that. And then we got a pony for the kids and, we had a pony out there one time, so I fenced in that whole back half there. Then our youngest daughter, Sarah, was interested in animals, and so I thought, "Ah, a bucket calf. You know, why don't we raise some bucket calves?" And so I putup the milking shed down there. And we have plenty of farmer friends that live around here. We have a way to get them or you just go to the sale barn and buy them. But we had probably three sets of bucket calves. We did that in the beginning, and I don't wanna mess with animals again. That was a kind of a pain.
Karen Skinner
And she got too attached and it was too much for her.
Jim Skinner
I'd try to explain to her that, no, this they are for food.
Jim Skinner
So anyway, I went over to Deer Springs over there and talked to Jennifer. She's the winemaker and one of the owners, and, I asked her what she would like in a grape, 'Because we were gonna put some grapes in. And she said, "Well, the one I would, I would really like to have is some more Delaware." And, uh... 'Cause she got some Delaware from Steve Gamut. And I said, "Okay. I will look into that." And then I have a friend, a plumber friend of mine, he was was growing grapes down by Firth. And whenever I'd have a plumbing inspection for him we talked grapes all the time. He had a lot of Frontenac then and said, "You don't wanna plant Frontenac,, 'cause everybody has that in their ground. Everybody has planted Frontenac." He said, "There's a new variety coming up and it's only six years old," that was at the time of our conversation, uh, called Marquette. And he said, "It's a cold hardy grape, and comes from Minnesota." He said, "You should really look at that." So I did, and so that's what we stuck with. It's gonna be our second variety that we've planted. We planted 506 plants of the Delaware, 387 Marquette, and Brianna is what we have over here. They're all the short rows on the north side of the house, and that was one of my favorite wines. That's why I wanted to plant Brianna. So we only have 106 of those plants. And then we planted and harvested, I thought, "I think I'd like to put a couple rows of Chambourcin in and a couple of Traminette." And so we put in two row or four rows of those two varieties in just because we liked that wine. So in the beginning, the Delaware was a pain, and plus we were having a drought at that time. It was very hard to get them going the first 2 or 3 years, they just struggled. Plus we got hit with herbicide damage and that doesn't help.
Jim Skinner
Um, so because of one or two years of the drought that we had, I had a bunch of leftover PVC pipe that I had, and I drug all that stuff out there and drilled holes in the side of it. And that's how I water them because I didn't irrigate anything out here. I just wanted nature to do the irrigation for me, you know.
Tyler Bertsch
So what did that look like? Explain kind of what you did with the PVC.
Karen Skinner
He laid it in the rows and...
Jim Skinner
Just strung them out. You know?
Tyler Bertsch
Just put some holes in them where the...
Jim Skinner
Yeah. I have two... Like a slope, like a soaker. Drip system.
Jim Skinner
Soaker rod type thing the garden hose. You know that they... Or not a garden hose, but they have these soaking garden hoses that you can stretch out. I got a long run here, and I had enough PVC pipe that I could do two rows at a time. So it took me about two weeks to get them all watered in real good. You know, I just saturated the ground. And that helped them a lot. Then the next year after that, I think it might have been the fourth year, we had all kinds of rain and it... That's when they really took off, after that.
Tyler Bertsch
So then this was, like, 2009? 2010?
Jim Skinner
... yeah, no, 12, um-
Karen Skinner
That was our last vineyard we planted. We did that one and that was the last one. Nine, and then I think 10, didn't we do that in 11? 2011 or 12?
Jim Skinner
Yeah, that was the third year. So it'd be nine, 10... 2009, 10, 11, 2011 would be, uh, the Delaware in the back. There's-
Tyler Bertsch
So which was first? Marquette was first? Or Delaware?
Jim Skinner
Marquette.
Karen Skinner
And we're gonna go this way, north and south, and then we learned don't plant that way, from east-west, because the vines would be longer. That's why we put in short rows, so they said you have to grow north-south so you get the movement of the air and the sun. So we thought, "Whoa. Good thing we went to the workshop, 'cause we were gonna do it wrong."
Tyler Bertsch
Did anybody think you were crazy for growing grapes?
Jim Skinner
Oh, yeah.
Karen Skinner
Not really crazy. They just couldn't understand, "What in the world?" And then when you have workers out here sometimes, they go, "Oh, wow. Uh, you sure planted a lot of trees." Those are grapes.
Tyler Bertsch
Who taught you, and were you mostly figuring out yourself?
Jim Skinner
Uh, the workshops that we went to, basically.
Jim Skinner
The university had control of the NWGGA at that time. And it's been probably the last, eight, nine, 10 years that they're completely out of it now. They're separate from the university, Paul Reed and Gamet, you know? They still wanted to help.They were still interested in it, and so they would have their own little workshop, and we had one out here. There was quite a few people that attended it too. And it was mainly that workshop when I was transferring some of the Marquette vines from VSP, vertical shoot positioning, to high wire. When that variety first came out, I was told that you want to put them on VSP. And they were so vigorous, I was hedging all the time, at least three or four times, throughout the season. And my shoulder just couldn't take it anymore. And what do you do with all these shoots. It encourages growth, but they were getting so long that they're coming over this way, shading out the grapes and stuff, so I had to take those off of there. So I thought, "I need to put it up on high wire." So I started... We bought all of our grapes from Double A out of New York, and they in the beginning wanted them on VSP. Well, now they say that the best way to grow them is on high wire. Train them, all the vines, to go down to the ground. And so I got six plants, six rows, rows down here that are on high wire. I was waiting to see how they would do, and, and they've done great.
Tyler Bertsch
So that's your preferred, that's what you would go with?
Jim Skinner
Yes. I get more plants, or more grapes out of those than I do probably one or two rows of the VSP grapes.
Tyler Bertsch
What do you think that... Just ball parking, what do you think the yield difference is from high cordon to... Versus VSP, you think?
Jim Skinner
Almost double
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. It, it's easier for the pickers to pick, you know?
Karen Skinner
Unless you're short.
Jim Skinner
Unless, unless you're a midget like her. And your hands are up above your head all the time.
Karen Skinner
That's why I don't help him out here with the pruning. It just gets my shoulders so bad, because he has to-
Jim Skinner
Well, it hurts, hurts mine too, but we-
Karen Skinner
So he did a little sled for me, and I would pull that sucker around and step on it, and then pull, and I thought, "This is crazy. You just..." I don't know.
Tyler Bertsch
Well, we can talk about that too, for pruning, what... How do you guys deal with the dead canes after you chop them off? Do you just put them in... You said a sled? You like pulling a sled around? Or do you-
Karen Skinner
No, that was just for me, for height, to help him, you know?
Tyler Bertsch
Oh, oh, gotcha.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
I've got, two big 55-gallon plastic drums that I put all them in. I cut everything, you know, down to between six and 10 inches, and then we have a burn barrel out here, and I burn all my prunings. And we burn the garbage every once in a while, the paper stuff. And so if I have a basket of garbage, I'll throw that in the burn barrel, and that's kind of my... keeps things going. And then as I'm pruning out there, I'll bring up another barrel and dump them in there and they burn up, and it's important to get rid of the prunings too, for any disease that you could have.
Karen Skinner
Plus it makes your vineyard look better, because you don't have all these chunks of prunings that you didn't get picked up.
Jim Skinner
Some other growers, they would just rake them all in a big pile then have, like, a big bonfire.
Tyler Bertsch
So they just set them on the... Cut them, set them on the ground, and then come rake them later?
Karen Skinner
That's what they did.
Jim Skinner
... that's what they were doing. Yeah.
Karen Skinner
But we take our barrel with us.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. I just put the barrel right underneath, where I'm pruning and I go.
Tyler Bertsch
Huh. So, what do you put the barrel on? Or do you just rotate it with your hand?
Karen Skinner
Well, it's got handles
Tyler Bertsch
Is it, like, a plastic-
Karen Skinner
... so you just pull. It's like a garbage can, you know.
Tyler Bertsch
But do you have wheels, like little-
Jim Skinner
No.
Tyler Bertsch
... uh, casters? No?
Jim Skinner
No.
Karen Skinner
We don't need it.
Tyler Bertsch
No. Yeah. It's light enough, I suppose-
Karen Skinner
And we have a golf cart because that was just too heavy for me to pull all the way from down there up here.
Karen Skinner
And so we can lift it up, and he brings it up and then he dumps it, and we burn and we keep watching it, stir it. Number one, it takes away all the disease that you've had over the and number two, it really helps with your vineyard, so it doesn't look so bad.
Jim Skinner
And any insects too, because when I'm, especially on the Delaware, when I'm pruning those larvae in there, apple twig borer.
Karen Skinner
We’ve been told that out of all the vineyards people have gone to and visited and went through, ours is the cleanest one. Well, that's why. We burn everything.
Jim Skinner
We take care of it right away.
Karen Skinner
I think if... I just don't know why we'd put a big old brush pile out here and then worry about burning that down later. A lot of people do.
Jim Skinner
But that, that's kind of the reason, uh, why I got started with it, you know, to help pay for property taxes.
Jim Skinner
And give me something to do in the retirement, because I was thinking about that. I was not really getting that close to retirement, but I thought I'd have something to do, that I would enjoy. I love being outside.
Karen Skinner
He came home from work and he goes, "How about... Let's put in a vineyard?" What? A vineyard? Why? And he said, "Well, give us extra money for property taxes, because taxes are going up." I said, "Well, how hard of work is it?"
Tyler Bertsch
Piece of cake.
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
Karen Skinner
And he says, "Well, let's go talk to people." So, we went down and talked to Tom Zump and he said, "It's not hard. It just takes time." And that's true. Very time-consuming.
Tyler Bertsch
Yep. It's a labor of love, that's what I say.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
I mean, you couldn't do this crop if you hated it.
Karen Skinner
Oh, no.
Jim Skinner
Right.
Jim Skinner
The work is putting everything in, getting it established, you know? And after that-
Karen Skinner
Well, then after that if you have them like he said, on VSP, then you're out there all the time 'cause the shoots are growing, the wind blows, you gotta get out there and put them up.
Karen Skinner
If it's on the highwire it doesn't matter. All you have to do is just separate them.
Jim Skinner
Rake them down, you know what I mean?
Tyler Bertsch
Did you, did you or anybody notice a difference in quality as far as what you were doing with the Marquette? When you transitioned to highwire, did you, they notice any changes or say anything?
Jim Skinner
No. They all go in the same bin, you know, so-
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
... I didn't separate them, but...
Karen Skinner
We don't know why, but every... Well, we've only sold to two people and they've always told us from day one, "I don't know what you guys are doing, but your grapes are high quality compared to what we get in here." We hear it from Jennifer and we hear it... So I don't know if it's because of the way we trim and we burn and get rid of all that stuff, or if it's just our land. I don't know, but we have been told that. And Jim said he didn't really notice, a difference, but then when he's standing there and they're bringing their fruit in, there is a huge difference.
Jim Skinner
Oh, man. I've seen some terrible grapes.
Karen Skinner
But that was our goal. We wanted, not necessarily quantity, but we wanted good quality. That was something we told each other. If we're gonna do this, we wanna have the best we can possibly do.
Tyler Bertsch
Yep. With Marquette, have you had any issues with heat-related problems with it?
Karen Skinner
Just pollination. When it rains at the wrong time when it's flowering
Jim Skinner
The heat's not gonna affect the pollination. And that, that shows up on, year by year all the records I keep. You know, if we have a lot of rain or wind or whatever, less grapes. Or hail. We got, the Delaware got hailed out one year to where there just wasn't hardly anything out there to harvest, you know. So... I don't know if you've experienced any hail with your guys'.
Tyler Bertsch
Oh, yeah.
Karen Skinner
(laughs)
Tyler Bertsch
I live in Nebraska.
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
Tyler Bertsch
I've been lucky enough to... We haven't had a major hail hit to where it was really detrimental, but...
Karen Skinner
I remember when we talked to Amy. She said they were three days out from harvest and that straight-line wind came in and it blew everything down. They got no harvest.
Tyler Bertsch
That's so frustrating.
Karen Skinner
Yes.
Karen Skinner
But that's, you know, when Mother Nature... She always wins.
Tyler Bertsch
She does. (laughs) She's undefeated. She-
Karen Skinner
Yes.
Tyler Bertsch
What were the biggest surprises from growing grapes in our climate that... You knew it would be a challenge, but was there anything where you were like, "Oh, I didn't expect that," or, "Didn't consider that."
Jim Skinner
Well, one thing I didn't expect was, uh, getting hit with herbicide every year?
Karen Skinner
YeahI guess we didn't realize how sensitive they are.
Jim Skinner
We still get hit with it, you know, because that stuff will travel five miles.
Karen Skinner
Well, my biggest thing was, like I've said, I don't care to work outside and every time we have to net, which we haven't done for three years, I'm glad, was, uh, it always was on the hottest weekend. 103 degrees out there, no breeze, and we're out there netting. Uh. And then-
Karen Skinner
That was the surprise. That was the biggest surprise.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, you have to consider that.
Karen Skinner
Because it's starting to turn, if you don't get that net out there, the birds find it and boy, they can wipe it out quickly.
Tyler Bertsch
So you guys still selling grapes?
Karen Skinner
Yes.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. We sold to Berman's this year at Glacial Till, and then last year it was Deer Springs. And so I talked to John over there I said, well he said that basically we're about his only growers anymore. Growers are diminishing, you know. Big time.
Tyler Bertsch
That's why I'm here. (laughs)
Jim Skinner
(laughs) I know.
Tyler Bertsch
'Cause it's- it's a- it's a challenge and-
Jim Skinner
It is, yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
I think the transition we're going through, you know, I know some younger growers, I think the transition is we're going from people who are retired, had, a hobby vineyard or maybe their small side business to where traditional farming for a lot of us younger people is just out of reach, because we just can't get the equipment and the scale that you need. So grape growing is a viable alternative or something to look at. And so I've talked to a lot of younger growers and- and, what I'm saying is there's a big gap between the two. Where there's gonna be a need for more and more younger people to step in and-
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
... and grow this crop because there's a lot of opportunity in the industry.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
... hopefully it will grow. I know it's kinda down right now but hopefully it'll grow and there's a lot of opportunity but...
Karen Skinner
Well, the number one thing that, when I've talked to people that have been growing for some years like Jim and I, and they decide not to, one of the main reasons is they say it's just too difficult to get people to come to harvest. It's so stressful at that time of the year. Should be the most exciting time because your hard work is finally gonna be put bins and taken to market but when you can't get people... And then with the mechanical harvesters, some vineyards do- or wineries don't want that because it puts too much garbage in there. When they're handpicked, none of that garbage goes in. The leaves are out, the twigs. And it also is very expensive.
Tyler Bertsch
So let's talk about that. What are... And before, you know, we started this, you had talked about getting labor on certain weekends. When was it you think it's a challenge or what are some of the weekends or things you've noticed that-
Karen Skinner
September.
Jim Skinner
Football.
Karen Skinner
Anything that-
Jim Skinner
Football Saturdays.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
The grapes that mature in September-
Jim Skinner
That's the excuse.
Karen Skinner
... it's so hard. You just can't get 'em.
Jim Skinner
The excuse that they would give you. You know, "Oh, I got a- I got a tailgate going on, you know, for the football game," and all that.
Karen Skinner
Yeah, and even if it's gonna be 103 degrees that day, they come because they know we're gonna be done by 10:00. That is our goal, to have enough pickers... so we're done by 10:00. And at first Jim thought, "Oh, that's so early, nobody will want to eat," 'cause I make a big lunch for everybody and they get a glass, they get a bottle of wine to take home and then the people who don't like wine or don't want wine, I make salsa so they're welcome to take a jar of salsa if they want. And they're all family and friends. I mean, we do not have strangers out here. It's family and friends.
Jim Skinner
Been some people that have bailed on us, you know, through the years but, that's understandable. You know, they say, "I just can't do it, my shoulders are hurt," or whatever and it's fine, you know, it's fine. But there's always somebody new that I would get, you know, I'd, because I would talk to people and say, "Would you be interested in growing grapes?" And Karen's, got a cousin, or her daughter lives in Lincoln and she has a lot of friends and-
Karen Skinner
Tons of friends.
Jim Skinner
... she, uh, you know, I call her and say, "Well, how many do you need?"
Karen Skinner
And then they'll say, "Well, six," and she'll say, "Well, if you need to throw the net wider, I think I can get more."
Jim Skinner
Yeah, 10 people or whatever. I mean, that's huge.
Karen Skinner
Uh, no, six will be fine. (laughs)
Karen Skinner
And they come back all the time because number one, they think it's so much fun. And number two, they love the food. They just can't believe.
Tyler Bertsch
So let me ask you this; what do you think has been most effective, what's been the best thing? Like maybe, I've heard people say leave little... For when they have younger people, they leave little gift cards hidden in thevineyard for kids to find or, you know, they have Gatorade or I don't know. Salsa sounds pretty good. Do you guys have any other pointers or things that seem to work well in getting people to...
Karen Skinner
We try to ask them only one time (a season). Not for every picking.
Jim Skinner
... short- short pickers and I have tall pickers- and I say that tall pickers for the Delaware because, it's on high wire and the short pickers for, you know, the VSP, the Marquette, you know. And then the Brianna, we would have, what, 106 of those plants so we'd have our oldest daughter and her family come out. She's got six kids.
Karen Skinner
Six kids. And that's great. They just... the competition. "How many buckets do you have?" You know? And then their dad, "Well-"... first one done gets to choose what we're gonna eat for dinner. And then, if you get- ... so many buckets, then you're gonna get a large Blizzard. You know, things like that. Yeah, so that incentivizes them.
Jim Skinner
This year at Glacial Till, Berman wanted both the Marquette and the Brianna at the same time, on the same weekend.
Karen Skinner
By noon.
Jim Skinner
And, and I thought, "Hmm."
Karen Skinner
I said, "It's doable. We can do this." (laughs)
Jim Skinner
Yeah. We'll, we'll try it. You know?
Karen Skinner
We can do it. And we did.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. We still got done around 10:30.
Tyler Bertsch
How many acres or plants was that on that same day?
Jim Skinner
Well, 106 on the end and then 380, so it'd be, what?
Tyler Bertsch
About half, a little over half, right?
Jim Skinner
Yeah, almost an acre.
Tyler Bertsch
Something like that.
Karen Skinner
Almost an acre.
Tyler Bertsch
Oh, almost an acre? Okay.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
500 plants is considered-
Karen Skinner
... just under an acre, so.
Jim Skinner
So almost.
Karen Skinner
And they were... And you'd think they'd go, "Ugh," but no. "Okay, what do we need to do?" And so then, they would... The thing that's the most joyous is listening to them laugh and talk. They're having a good time out there. And we try to pair them up with somebody that we think they'd get along well with.
Tyler Bertsch
Right.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
Do you guys have an idea of harvest rate? And what I mean by that is, you know, how many pounds per variety you think it is to pick per hour?
Karen Skinner
Yeah, he's got records of what we have gotten each year.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, I can, uh, read them out, read them off for you.
Tyler Bertsch
That's gold. Let's hear it.
Jim Skinner
All right. In 2012, probably would have been... All right, let's see. Let me look at 2011.
Karen Skinner
One thing, too, that's very, very important. We have some friends that come out and help us. And then I'll go out and they go, "Oh, here comes quality control." 'Cause I'm fine, 'cause I'm short, so I can see right through and, "You guys are missing, make sure you pull out the leaves
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
So 2012, uh, we didn't harvest the Delaware at all, because they weren't ready. You know, you should wait three yearsbefore you take a harvest. So in 2012 There was 1,300 pounds of Marquette and then 540 pounds of the Brianna. And in 2013 the Marquette there was 2,130. It went up for the Brianna and it was 796 pounds. And I guess, you know, we didn't pick thethe Delaware that day.
Karen Skinner
Is that when we got hailed?
Jim Skinner
No, that was 2017, I believe.
Karen Skinner
Oh.
Jim Skinner
We got the hail. And 2014, Brianna. It's funny how some varieties will do better than others and, and that all depends on, their flowering stages. Each variety flowers at different stages of the game and it depends on what it's doing, you know, why they're flowering. If it's raining, you know, you're not gonna do very good or if it's a lot of wind, forget it, you know.
Tyler Bertsch
Was there any varieties that you grew, that you thought were better, that you thought, you know, weather being equal, they'd probably set better?
Karen Skinner
For, I think for the small amount that we grow of the Brianna, it has always done the best.
Karen Skinner
Compared to Marquette. Brianna is just hardly any work and it just does a, I mean, a nice-
Tyler Bertsch
It's a workhorse.
Karen Skinner
It is.
Tyler Bertsch
Such a good grape, yeah.
Jim Skinner
Even for herbicide damage, they, they're not much...
Karen Skinner
It doesn't really get too, too affected, but the rest-
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
... of them do. And we always said, "Geez, if we would have known this, we would have did more Brianna." versus Marquette.
Jim Skinner
2014, 1,023 on the Brianna. Uh, 823 on the Marquette and 664 on the Delaware.
Tyler Bertsch
Do you know how many pounds, let's say an hour, an average picker would take? I know that's kind of hard, but you think-
Karen Skinner
They, they say, I... It kind of depends on the row, but I don't know how long it takes them, but five gallon bucket is usually 22 pounds. Isn't that right?
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
22 pounds of grapes. And sometimes they can fill that bucket with two plants, depending on how well it's done and other times, boy, they're going halfway through the row before they've even got a bucket. So it varies from year to year really.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. 2015, 560 on the Brianna, 1,711 on the Marquette and Delaware was 1,151. So the Delaware, they're improving as, you know, as, as the years are going by. We had the two best years... Um, let's see. I think that's, uh, 2000. Let's see. Yeah. 2017 was the first good year on the Delaware. We had 4,500 pounds.
Tyler Bertsch
How many years old was it at that point?
Jim Skinner
Um, let's see.
Tyler Bertsch
You said 2011, so it was six years old at that point.
Jim Skinner
There were so many grape. And that, that's the year that everything did so well. And all, you know, all, all the growers did re- really well. 'Cause the Brianna, 1,990 pounds for 106 plants.
Tyler Bertsch
That's really good.
Jim Skinner
I know. And then the Marquette they were 3,948.
Karen Skinner
That was the best year we've ever had.
Jim Skinner
Yes. And I guess that the Brianna, uh, I picked six buckets for our own wine, and, uh, it would've been 2,128 for the Brianna, and then the Marquette were 3,948, and the Delaware were 4,500.
Tyler Bertsch
Did you notice any differences with the same variety where the soil maybe changed, or the slope or anything, and had a big impact on the yield? Like you went from maybe a more loamy area to clay or something like that, where you could, you knew every year it was like, "This area's gonna be a little less,"
Jim Skinner
I've got, these plants over here are the Marquette, the first six rows. The plants that like the three plants on the bottom end of that row where it collects all that moisture coming down from the hill up there, they do a lot better. And the plants do a lot better too. So, um, I gotta back up here. The Delaware, um, that 4,500, that was just the first weekend. And we didn't get all the plants, or all the grapes picked…. and then we went back. We had seven rows left and we picked another 2,500. (laughs) 2,500 the next weekend.
Karen Skinner
... and our pickers were complaining because we're not moving. (laughs) 'Cause it, that's our longest rows out there.
Jim Skinner
Those two years, I mean, you, you couldn't see through the canopy.
Karen Skinner
The canopy was just beautiful.
Jim Skinner
You know, 'cause it, it was just grapes. Nothing but grapes.
Karen Skinner
It was beautiful.
Tyler Bertsch
Love it.
Jim Skinner
Yep. And then the next year after that, they did pretty good. They dropped off a little bit. We had 4,580 in the Delaware. We had 2,800 on the Marquette, and 1,259 Brianna. And that was 2018. And then 2019.
Karen Skinner
I know this doesn't have anything to do with it, but while I'm thinking about it, you were talking about erosion. And we decide how can we stop this because it's like, you know, in really heavy rain, it just looks like a river running. And like gullies. So we went to a workshop and they talked about putting out rock. So we did that. And our son-in-laws had to help them make that. They were members of the chain gang because they ate it. But we have rock, and plus it helped, uh, with the weeds and stuff underneath, and it stopped the erosion from heavy rain.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, I've seen some vineyards where they're just washed out. ... big dips- Gullies. ... you know, 'cause you wanna keep that area weed free.
Tyler Bertsch
Hm, did you know, notice any difference with how those grapes grew? Because I would think maybe that would reflect some sunlight back, or, you know, do something. Did you notice anything with them?
Jim Skinner
It seems, seems like, especially on the Marquette they'll mature quicker.
Karen Skinner
So I think they hold the heat maybe.
Jim Skinner
'Cause I've talked to other, like, Bart Holmquist, that he grew on a Marquette, and I’d tell him where our brixs was at on our Marquette, and he said, "Really?" He said- "Mine's are like five points behind yours," you know. So, I, you know, I, I don't know if it has, if that has anything to do with it or not, the, the rocks-
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, it r- really could 'cause they-
Jim Skinner
They would heat up the soil-
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
... you know, really quicker, and, and like you said, reflect off and hit the plants or something..
Karen Skinner
And the other thing, it was, it was better when you had to stand out there and prune or work, you know, taking off suckers because you're not in the mud. It's helped that. I, I like that part of it.
Tyler Bertsch
What percentage of your vineyard do you think has rock on it?
Jim Skinner
All of it.
Karen Skinner
That's what I said this time.
Tyler Bertsch
Oh, I thought you were saying some. Okay.
Karen Skinner
... I said it's a chain gang out here 'cause there was.
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
Tyler Bertsch
Man, yeah. Yeah.
Jim Skinner
And it's all... if I had any areas that I, I knew would wash out, you know, then I would, I'd just, I'd leave that.
Karen Skinner
I mean, it's not heavily rocked, just enough to prevent erosion.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, it's just a river rock.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah. What's your soil type like? Is it more loam, clay?
Jim Skinner
Clay.
Tyler Bertsch
Clay? That's pretty common around here.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
What percentage clay off your head do you think it is?
Jim Skinner
At least 80%.
Tyler Bertsch
80, yeah.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
So you, yeah, I could see the erosion part of it. That's a challenge a lot of us deal wbecause our soils here in theprairie are really clay based.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
... our best quality grapes come from the south, and that, it's because that was our huge, huge garden.
Tyler Bertsch
Soil amendments and fertilizers and stuff?
Karen Skinner
Yeah, and we used to compost, you know, throw everything out there, and leaves and, you name it, and we did it, and that, I mean... Those grapes compared to the north are just amazing.
Tyler Bertsch
More yield or more bushier?
Karen Skinner
They're bigger-
Tyler Bertsch
Both?
Karen Skinner
Yes.
Jim Skinner
Everything, yeah.
Karen Skinner
They're bigger. They're, they're fabulous. Uh, we hate picking down there because it's surrounded by trees, so you gotta get down there first thing.
Jim Skinner
It's, it's a lot hotter. so we try to get everybody down there first. Get those knocked out, and then we'll go up here.
Tyler Bertsch
... I noticed you have trees all around the property. Did you have much issues with fungal diseases? Because I know sometimes if you have too many trees, it can kind of block wind, but Nebraska, that's not something we're in short supply of-
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. Yeah, my spray schedule, it's every two weeks, you know, is when I spray, so.
Tyler Bertsch
What do you use primarily, or what are the different sprays you use?
Jim Skinner
I'll start out with Manzate and Rally. I'll blend those two together, the Rally and the Manzate. Then after June 1st, I believe that I'll start using Captan, so.
Tyler Bertsch
That's worked pretty well for you?
Jim Skinner
Yeah
Tyler Bertsch
How many sprays do you think you do a year? Not herbicide but just fungicide.
Karen Skinner
Well, you do the dormant spray. We think that's important.
Jim Skinner
Sulfurix, I don't know if you've ever done that on your vines.
Karen Skinner
Yeah, so important at first.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
And then the other thing he does, too, in the fall, or after everything goes, he does the weed and feed out there. We think that's important.
Jim Skinner
That's, well, the grape leaves are all, they drop their leaves, so I don't damage them with any 2,4-D or anything. But, uh...
Karen Skinner
But it's every 10 days.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
And that one you can't use for 60-some-odd days. Any-
Tyler Bertsch
Mancozeb?
Karen Skinner
I think so.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, before harvest.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
I know Mancozeb's probably the most popular.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
Rally's been really good.
Karen Skinner
They say it's a good thing to switch it up.
Tyler Bertsch
Yep. The different Frac groups.
Karen Skinner
And then for, uh, pests, we have, uh, well, birds are obvious. Like raccoons.
Karen Skinner
They'll get in there, just tear that net. Oh, it's awful.
Jim Skinner
Six and seven sprays, fungicide sprays.
Tyler Bertsch
That seems about right.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
I think last year I had about that, that seems pretty common. Last year was a really wet year in Nebraska.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, compared to what we've been getting.
Karen Skinner
Seems like the rains came at a really good time.
Tyler Bertsch
Far as pests, bugs, what are the biggest problems you've had with, and how'd you manage that?
Jim Skinner
Well, we dealt with Japanese beetles, you know, as you guys probably did, too.
Tyler Bertsch
Oh, they're my favorite.
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
Karen Skinner
We still get them, but not like we had.
Jim Skinner
They have a life cycle, so they're, they're on, on their way out now, at least in our area, you know, for a while, till they come back. I still see a few out there, but nothing like they were when they first got here, you know.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, I haven't seen them really much since 2021, there was a decent amount of them.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
But over the last couple years, it's, they're almost nonexistent, which hasn't been the case since the early 2000s, right?
Jim Skinner
Right, so I don't even spray for them, because they're not gonna do any damage, you know. Um, they'll skeletalize some leaves, you know, but I don't worry about them, at least now. I did at the beginning. I bought the traps. You know, I tried that, and they say you shouldn't do that.
Tyler Bertsch
'Because you're bringing them in?
Karen Skinner
Bringing them in.
Jim Skinner
(laughs) And that could've been the case. I don't know, but, uh, so I, I did that for at least two years, three years, you know.
Karen Skinner
We had our grandchildren help us net, and they hated it because it was like a sci-fi movie up there. Throw that net on and everything went out and they're, "Oh." "Why are you having us do this? This is disgusting."
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
Karen Skinner
We have granddaughters. (laughs) Those guys didn't care, but.
Tyler Bertsch
For herbicides, do you, I know you guys have rock. Does it cut down on that a little bit from having all the rock out there?
Jim Skinner
Well, no, not really.
Tyler Bertsch
Still the same?
Jim Skinner
Maybe,I use a lot ,not Roundup, but it's the stuff from, uh, Waverly Co-op.
Tyler Bertsch
Is it Cheetah, Liberty, or is it like a burn down?
Jim Skinner
Tomahawk I think was one.
Tyler Bertsch
I'm not familiar with that one.
Jim Skinner
Brand name that I had.
Tyler Bertsch
Is it systemic or is it like a, a burn down, you just, whatever it touches it-
Jim Skinner
Right. That's what it is, uh.
Tyler Bertsch
Do you have any kind of... Do you do it just with, with your, like a hand sprayer, or do you have any kind of special setup that you use?
Jim Skinner
I have a 15-gallon sprayer and, uh, and I put it in this little trailer behind my tractor, my saber tractor. And it's just a wand sprayer.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
So it gets all down. So I keep it on the ground, you know?
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah. What would, what do you think the biggest mistakes you made early on that you'd warn other people about?
Karen Skinner
I don't think we really did because we talked to so many people.
Tyler Bertsch
You were informed?
Karen Skinner
Yes, uh, when we sp- it- spoke about Tom Zump, and he had a huge operation over there. First thing he asked was, "Are you guys crazy?"
Tyler Bertsch
(laughs)
Karen Skinner
"Do you know what you're getting into?" (laughs)
Jim Skinner
And we helped him harvest a lot of his grapes over there and plant a lot of his grapes and then he got hit with that, um...
Karen Skinner
Dicamba.
Jim Skinner
Well, dicamba and 2,4-D from the state, you know?
Tyler Bertsch
So, before this, we had kind of, we were chatting about,some of the the drift problems you have, but you had mentioned something about, what a lot of people don't think of is the non-traditional farmers that may be landscapers, stuff like that.
Karen Skinner
Yes, the lawn people.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
Because they're spraying all the time. They don't care if it's 100 degrees, the wind's blowing 50 miles an hour and we didn't even give that a thought. But we got the state ag involved, and so they came out and took samples to see what was in our leaves and stuff. And then he did a lot of research, I guess, on how the wind blew what the temperature was that day, because it was so spotty. Some of the vineyard down here and some out here, it wasn't the whole thing. And that's when he told us, "It's from that type of spray." It goes up over the tree and it swirls around and would hit this tr- vine and that vine and go a couple rows and hit another vine. So that was eye-opening, you know? You just don't think about that.
Tyler Bertsch
Was there, uh, one that's more damaging than others? Herbicides you've had problems with?
Jim Skinner
Dicamba, probably about the worst I think.
Karen Skinner
That's the worst.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. Um, but we get hit with both, you know? And that guy across the road over here. We had state ag people come out, took samples, you know, from our, our, uh, vineyard took samples from his place over there and so he, he did get written warning letter.
Tyler Bertsch
How close is he?
Jim Skinner
Just across the road.
Karen Skinner
Very close.
Tyler Bertsch
Point blank?
Jim Skinner
Yeah, yeah.
Jim Skinner
So that, that's why he turned his spray in.
Karen Skinner
He, he decided to have somebody else do it.
Jim Skinner
Over... Yeah. He didn't want to get in trouble anymore.
Karen Skinner
Yeah, he didn't want to get written up again.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
So if you guys were gonna do this again, you were gonna start from square one, are there certain varieties you'd plant, ones you wouldn't plant? Anything you would do different?
Jim Skinner
Probably more Briana, you know, than what we've got 'cause it's such an easy plant to grow. Um, I...
Karen Skinner
We would do everything highwire. It's a lot easier. It's not to prune, but it is, all you do is go out and just pull the plant apart so you can- and pull it down so you can have the fruiting zone and it's so easy. You're not out there pushing up, um, all the time. Just like that.
Jim Skinner
Pushing up in the catch wires.
Karen Skinner
Pushing. You get some wind and you're out there pushing up again.
Tyler Bertsch
Do you have any data or any idea, how much extra labor you think that VSP is in our wind? What do you think that adds? I know that's kind of hard.
Karen Skinner
Um, you're out there every day. You have to- Constantly fighting that.
Karen Skinner
Yes. Every day.
Jim Skinner
Getting them up out of the catch wires, you know? I feel like you, you look at it and I look out the window and next day and it was-
Karen Skinner
It's all hanging down.
Jim Skinner
It was, it gets so bad to where the vines, you know, they come out of their catch wires and they're reaching into the next plant, and wanting to hook onto the next plant.
Tyler Bertsch
Do you ever thought about just transitioning them all over to high wire?
Jim Skinner
Yeah, at one time, but I thought, "How much longer do I want to do this?" You know? And I gotta go through all that workand then... I'm glad I did those six rows down there because it, I learned something there that, you know, I probably should have done it with the whole, all the Marquette at that time.
Karen Skinner
But we just did what they recommended.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, at the time.
Karen Skinner
That has saved, that's very great on saving labor because when you have to go out there and hedge, He would hedge it, throw it to the ground, and I'm behind picking it up and oh, what a mess.
Karen Skinner
Whereas when it's just run out there and pull it down and it doesn't matter if it's hanging on the ground. We would cut some of that off anyway 'cause he mows between the rows, but...
Tyler Bertsch
Do you notice any disease differences and, or what am I trying to say? Any disease differences on the same variety, maybe from the south to the north or even in the same rows. What, any kind of factors that impacted that …
Jim Skinner
Um, probably, from any drift. I think the trees around here help with any drift that might be coming in. When we had so much trouble with the Delaware, they're more wide open back there, so they were getting hit more, you know, constant than like the Marquette.
Tyler Bertsch
What about like black rot or powdery mildew?
Jim Skinner
No. 'Cause I, I would stick to my spray- Yeah. That's so important.
Karen Skinner
We have helped a couple of different people, um, pick and it's amazing. You could tell they didn't spray, because there's so much black rot and so much of the powdery mildew in their-
Karen Skinner
... grapes. And that's when we figured out, boy, that spray program is very important.
Jim Skinner
Another thing with the Marquette on having that VSP with the grapes under there, you have a lot more foliage, you know, on top of it and that. And I, I think, uh, those first six rows down there, if they're pretty healthy plants, I would notice a little bit of fungicide issues in there, you know?
And so you gotta leaf pull and and that, uh, to make sure that air is getting into them, you know, the sunlight. So...
Tyler Bertsch
Did any of the varieties surprise you when you put them in? You thought maybe they had more hype or they just acted different than you were expecting or anything weird about them that you think didn't show up in the literature? They did something... I've heard certain varieties at like year seven, they just quit, you know, they don't produce well or, you know, or every few years they just don't do well.
Jim Skinner
Well, I remember reading some place, where every seven years you should plan on bringing a, a new sucker up and creating another cordon. You know, left and right. And, uh, I would just do it, you know, when the cordon looked like it was ready to die out or if I had a lot of dead spots along there. That's when I would cut it out or create another cordon, you know, bring it off from a shoot or something. Um, so I, I didn't, you know, set a date, you know, seven years, here we go, you know, or anything.
Tyler Bertsch
But you just did cordon renewal as you saw.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
As the plant needed it.
Karen Skinner
Well, one thing that we didn't know in the beginning is when they tell you to let it go and pick the healthiest one, but they talked about bull canes. We don't know, we didn't know anything about it. Geez, it's going great, let's just let it go. Well, you find out you don't let those go. You gotta cut those off. So that was one thing that was very surprising, but that comes with mistakes and knowledge. And then we went to one workshop and he said that when you s- first start out, you just want it to grow from your elbow to your end of your finger and cut the rest off. And you're gonna have balanced vine. Whether or not that's true, we don't know because ours was already up and going. But I can understand why some of it was, there's nothing there and the other side's just beautiful.That's what he said. That's how you balance your vine is only from your elbow, you know, where it starts to go elbow to your fingertip and cut the rest of that off. And let all that strength go.
Tyler Bertsch
So how many spurs did you have? Is it a lot different on your varieties or do you have kind of the same amount of spurs?
Karen Skinner
Same.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, same amount. Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
How many do you usually do or...
Jim Skinner
Well, depending on how long the cordon is, you know, you can, uh, 'cause some of these down here are a little bit shorter 'cause I put the plants a little bit closer to the tree-
Tyler Bertsch
The Marquette's?
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
In between six and eight, you know. So...
Tyler Bertsch
Did you notice any differences in vigor, winter hardiness or fruiting over time? Did they change or have they always been kind of consistent? Same kind of numbers, harvest dates, things ch- change wildly or they-
Karen Skinner
I think the Marquette has always been give and take. But that Brianna is, you can pretty much count on how many pounds you're gonna get. Weather doesn't seem to really bother it. The heat, uh, I mean, but the-
Jim Skinner
Well, it does though, I mean-
Karen Skinner
A little bit, but not as bad as like the Marquette.
Jim Skinner
When they're at the flowering stage, you know, that's the important part, you know, where you don't want a lot of wind or rain.
Jim Skinner
You know, they shouldn't really be out there spraying either, you know, when they're flowering.
Karen Skinner
Stay out of the wind. Yeah.
Jim Skinner
Just stay out of there.
Tyler Bertsch
Any trunk issues with any of the varieties that you had problems with?
Jim Skinner
Well, that was at that workshop that, you know, where we met you at, you know, and that-
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
What was his name, you know?
Tyler Bertsch
The Flying Vine Doctor.
Karen Skinner
Richard Smart.
Tyler Bertsch
Yep, Richard Smart.
Jim Skinner
And, uh, it made a lot of sense and so I started doing that, um, not, 'because I really didn't have any issues with the Delaware or the Marquette, you know, with trunk issues. But with the, the Traminette and the Chambourcin, I did have. And so I bought some of this stuff that, uh, I would spray on the, the prunings, you know, the cut ends. And it has made a difference. It has made a difference as those plants are doing a lot better.So-
Tyler Bertsch
Do you have a general date on harvest for the different varieties?
Karen Skinner
Yes. well, it's changed. It used to be Brianna was always the first, and then the Marquette, a week apart, in August. But this is very consistent.
Tyler Bertsch
The Delaware?
Karen Skinner
... Labor Day weekend.
Tyler Bertsch
What, so what weekend do you usually pick Brianna? Is that like mid-August, or like-
Karen Skinner
Usually, the second week in August. And I only know that because it's my birthday, so we always have to harvest and then we go to a family reunion.
Tyler Bertsch
And Marquette's about a little bit after, you were saying?
Karen Skinner
Well, this, last two years, it's been before.
Jim Skinner
It's usually the next weekend.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
But now they kind of flip-flop.
Karen Skinner
Flip-flop. They're first and then the Brianna's last, but-
Tyler Bertsch
Any idea why that is? Interesting.
Karen Skinner
It's crazy. I don't know.
Tyler Bertsch
What year did it kinda switch on you, you think? Or was it when you transitioned to-
Karen Skinner
Two years ago.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
And this year-
Tyler Bertsch
I wonder, do you think that had to do with flipping to high wire, or adding rocks, or anything like that? Are they-
Karen Skinner
No, the rocks have been there forever.
Tyler Bertsch
They'd all, always been there?
Jim Skinner
Yeah. The rocks have been there forever.
Karen Skinner
Yeah. But we were surprised 'cause we bo- both said, "What? The Marquette's ready? It's always Brianna first."
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
That would've been-
Karen Skinner
And the last two years. But this year, he wanted both. And weren't they a little bit low on the bricks, the Brianna, this year?
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
When we took them, they could've sat on another week, but he wanted them at that time, so-
Jim Skinner
Yeah, he wanted both varieties 'cause he, uh, he wasn't gonna be getting any Brianna in, so he just wanted to put up with some, uh, uh, Lacrosse, I think, so...
Karen Skinner
But I, I don't understand that, why it did.
Tyler Bertsch
Just in your guys' experience talking to other growers and stuff, are there any varieties that you've heard don't do well around here or people have cautioned, they've had issues with them, or people have done really well with them? I've heard Brianna's gotten good reviews.
Karen Skinner
Um, Deer Springs over there, they had Catawba, and that did really well for a while, and then they had to pull it all out, but I don't remember what the issue was. Was it the-
Jim Skinner
The same, same thing.
Karen Skinner
Was it the-
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
... the borer?
Jim Skinner
Yeah, we thought it was apple twig borer.
Karen Skinner
Oh.
Jim Skinner
We got into that, too.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, those are both old Labrusca varieties. They've been around since the mid-1800s.
Karen Skinner
He told us, "Be careful with that borer 'cause it'll take your whole vineyard."
Jim Skinner
And there, there's no way to really treat for it, no way to spray for it, you know. That guy that I mentioned down in Missouri, uh, I said, "How do I, when do I spray?" He said, "I don't really know what to tell you. All I know is that's the only way you can control it with this, this pesticide spray." You know? So, but I didn't know when to spray it, you know? By that time, the damage was already done, you know, so, um, 'cause I'm thinking, if I don't have a big or any kind of a harvest this year on these plants, I'm gonna get rid of them, you know, I'm gonna pull them out, so... But they make, been making a, a white wine out of them. Well I tried letting them ferment on the skins one year because it's such a neat looking color, a great maroonish color, and it did not make a good wine, you know.
Jim Skinner
So you wanna press them right away.
Tyler Bertsch
Do you guys make wine?
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
He does. He's the winemaker.
Karen Skinner
And then when we, uh, have our harvest, I always make a really nice meal and they all get to choose a bottle of wine.
Jim Skinner
My home brew.
Karen Skinner
And then we always have it, some of them open so they can sample and see what they like and stuff.
Tyler Bertsch
It's a good transition to my next question. Do you think Prairie wines can truly compete and, do you think that's possible in the future, that we could get some more serious type wines? I know a lot of our stuff is sweet or white, and some of our reds are starting to get a lotbetter with Petite Pearl, Marquette and-
Jim Skinner
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Bertsch
As a winemaker, what do you think? You've been dealing with the acidity and that kind of stuff.
Karen Skinner
What do they call that? Your ter- territiory is your soil.
Tyler Bertsch
The terroir?
Karen Skinner
There you go.
Tyler Bertsch
I don't know if I pronounced that right-
Karen Skinner
Uh, we were, we, we went to Italy and that's what they say. Every region has their own unique taste from the soil.
Tyler Bertsch
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Karen Skinner
And so, it makes sense. If you have sandy soil or if you have clay or...
Tyler Bertsch
Yep.
Karen Skinner
It's gonna give you a different taste.
Tyler Bertsch
Do you guys have a lot of, uh, you know, calcium or, you know, like I know usually around here there are highly, uh, alkali, or alkaline, you know, high pH. Is that kind of the same?
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
Isn't it one thing that we, our soil lacks is zinc? I think it's-
Tyler Bertsch
That's, yeah, that's pretty common around here.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
But you can adjust for that, you know, in your wine too. If you're low on any of that, you can adjust for it.
Tyler Bertsch
So, what are you, what are you guys most proud of over the years of growing this?
Jim Skinner
... or the quality of grapes that we've got.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
It's be- it just is wonderful to hear that every time we take it in. Boy, I don't know what you guys are doing, but keep doing it.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
Did you guys have any bad years where you thought, "Oh, my gosh. Why the heck are we doing this?"
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
Karen Skinner
Yes.
Karen Skinner
We only got, what, five buckets out of one- out of all of our Marquette one year and we went over there and here he comes with his tractor and the loader and we said, "Stop, stop. This is all we have." Literally.
Tyler Bertsch
What happened?
Karen Skinner
It was awful.
Jim Skinner
That was the year we got hit with hail.
Karen Skinner
And poor pollination.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, we didn't get anything, out of the Delaware.
Jim Skinner
But that was just one, that one year. But I had enough grapes to make my own wine, you know? But it's farming. You know? It's gonna happen.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
You know? So we never really had trouble with much frost. You know? I didn't re- I've never worried about that much, you know?
Tyler Bertsch
I was gonna ask you about how did Delaware and Chambourcin and Treminette do in 2021. In February, we had a day where it went down to negative 30, which in Nebraska, that is like a once in 50 year deal or 100 year kind of event.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
How did that year go? Did you guys have a lot of damage? Did they recover? If I remember right, there was a decent amount of snow on the ground.
Karen Skinner
Well, one thing I think that did our... I c- We went on vacation and came back and the weather had been 28 degrees for I don't know how long and we already had the, um, Marquette had already... So it killed all those first buds. So we had the second bud and the wine or the... It didn't seem that we had as nice of a harvest after that 'cause you get three chances.
Tyler Bertsch
Right. First one's ideal. Second one's can be okay. On our, our type of vines, they typically that grow around here are fruitful to a degree. You know, the tertiary is usually just a survival.
Jim Skinner
Well, I can tell you the harvest for, 2021,, Brianna,, 790 pounds. The Marquette were 1,624, and Delaware, 3,998.
Tyler Bertsch
So it did well.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah. And I, I remember looking at the, uh, UNL had published something about it and there wasn't a lot of bud damage, which was surprising. I think what maybe was unique was probably the snow insulated a lot. It was deep enough to where maybe it was close enough to the vine, you know, the canopy height to where it was radiating some warmth off or something. I don't know. I'm not a meteorologist.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
But that's the only thing I could think of because negative 30 on or negative even 20 on bare ground is gonna cause some damage on some of the older varieties.
Jim Skinner
We had bud break on 4/30 of '21 on the Marquette, the Brianna and Delaware, all three varieties. Some of the Marquette cordon buds still have not opened up as of 5/11/'21. So, um...
Karen Skinner
That's another thing I think is important is, is note taking.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, I have a vineyard journal.
Karen Skinner
Year to-
Tyler Bertsch
I do that too.
Karen Skinner
You know?
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, that's huge.
Jim Skinner
It is.
Tyler Bertsch
Well, guys, I don't have any other questions outside. Is there anything you guys want to add or things new growers should think about or...
Jim Skinner
Yeah, if any new growers have, uh, you wanna make sure you get set up with a, a winery. If you go ask, you know, go talk to the winery and see what they would like in a grape, you know, and then do your own research after that to see how much of a problem, uh, that grape variety might be for you to be, you know, to grow it.
Karen Skinner
And I think the biggest thing is don't grow any more than you can handle if you're working.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. We started with a half acre.
Jim Skinner
Then a full acre in the back and I just- I can still hear people saying, "Oh, I put five acres in there and I didn't realize how much time it was gonna take and it looks awful out there and I could only get half of it done and-"
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
"... nobody will come help me." And I just thought, "Wow, those are things you gotta think about." That's why I said, "I'm gonna need your help." "Well, okay.")And I think the other thing is that, uh, first time growers don't understand how many times you handle each vine because you're gonna go through it at least three times to pull off the suckers. And you're gonna go through it even more if you do the, the vertical pull, pushing them out, pushing them out.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
Otherwise, they're gonna break off with the wind. There's just... You have to do it.
Tyler Bertsch
Did you have any issues with certain varieties breaking off in wind more so? Like the, the, uh, shoots snapping?
Jim Skinner
Som- sometimes, yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
Which ones were more prone to that?
Jim Skinner
The Marquette.
Karen Skinner
... much more brittle than the Brianna.
Jim Skinner
The Delaware, you know, they're on high wires, so we wait until they are a lot stronger out there before we go out there and start separating, getting them all to pull down.
Karen Skinner
Pulling them down. Mm-hmm.
Jim Skinner
Because if you just-You can't just let them go. You have to go out there and sort them all out, get them all pulled down, 'cause then the pickers, you know, would have a tough time trying to pick those grapes out of there if it was just a big bush up there, so-
Karen Skinner
Plus I don't think they would ripen as well. They need that wind. They need the sun.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
That, too, is another thing with grape growers. You gotta realize when those things form, you've gotta get it acclimated to the sun or it's gonna sunburn if you wait too long to pull things down or push it up, get it in the fruiting zone. You do not want sunburned grapes.
Karen Skinner
And that's something we hadn't thought about-
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
... when we were putting it in.
Tyler Bertsch
You wouldn't think about that as a new, new grower.
Karen Skinner
Right. But it really is helpful if you have two, one on each side, and you just walk and work together and- and try to do one row at a time.
Jim Skinner
And if you got neighbors as farmers, you better talk to them.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
You know, tell them what, what you're doing there and stuff, and, "I'd appreciate it if you would, you know, look after my crop here. This isn't a hobby, it's a business."
Jim Skinner
"You know, just like your business." And there, there are, uh, different things that they can spray out there that won't hurt your grapes, so...
Karen Skinner
And I think, too, you know, with the heaviness of the, the weight of, you know, when we harvest, he's out there in the spring then and tightening. It's something you've got to do. So there's more to it than just putting it in the ground and watching it grow. It's time-consuming.
Tyler Bertsch
And our brains in the prairie area are used to thousands of acres or hundreds of acres of corn.
Karen Skinner
Right.
Tyler Bertsch
So when you say, "Three acres of grapes," you're thinking, "That's not that- that- that's really not much work, that's..."
Jim Skinner
(laughs)
Tyler Bertsch
Anybody that's done it at all, by hand know that's a lot of work.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
Our friend, Bart, he had five acres of grape, and- and I always felt after Jim retired, I thought, "I wonder if he's ever felt bad about that." He goes, "Well, Bart, you have all kinds the time." No, you don't. When you get old and you retire, it takes you longer 'cause you're a little slower, you can't take the heat as well.
Jim Skinner
Right.
Karen Skinner
You wanna get out there when it's cool. And his wife wouldn't help him, so he did all five acres himself, and it showed. It was not a nice place at all.
Jim Skinner
His plants looked like it, his grapes looked like it.
Karen Skinner
It was so neglected, it was sad.
Jim Skinner
There for sure.
Karen Skinner
He did what he could-
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
... for the amount of time he could, but wow.
Jim Skinner
Yeah. I wouldn't have a vineyard if it looked like that.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
It was bad. And then we had, uh, the- the Zumz, he put in everything, uh, metal, those metal posts.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, how'd that go?
Jim Skinner
Intermediate posts, you know.
Karen Skinner
Not well. The winds snap it off.
Tyler Bertsch
I saw yours. (which look nice) I did the same thing. I did, looks like pretty much all wood, right?
Jim Skinner
Yeah, it was all wood.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, and that's held up really well.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
So I don't regret that. (laughs)
Jim Skinner
Yeah, a friend of mine that, uh, grew grapes over down there by that was one thing that he mentioned, you know, before we even started putting posts in out here, "Don't use the metal ones, you know. Make sure you put the wood posts in." 'Cause he said he'd seen the same thing 'cause he's traveled to other workshops in Pennsylvania and- and all over United States and- and, uh, so it- it's good to talk to other people that have done it, you know, from their experience, you know, what they've gone through.
Karen Skinner
One- one thing that, uh, we didn't think about it, but, uh, James Arthur, um, Jim Ballard, you know, he was the oldest one- He said that what people should do is raise their grapes and sell them to the grocery stores. There would be a great demand for that. We didn't know if he was saying that because he didn't want competition or what
Tyler Bertsch
No, I think he's right. .
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
You know, going back and looking at the history of grape growing, that was the primary industry for Nebraska in the late 1800s into the early 1900s, pre-Prohibition. I think we could get varieties to ripen here quicker than certain locations. We can get grapes to market at a different time frame than at least New York. California, I don't know, but-
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
... it's something to look at.
Karen Skinner
And he thought it would be a good moneymaker because even the little farmers markets and stuff, people go crazy over fresh grown vegetables-
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
... and fruits.
Tyler Bertsch
Yep.
Karen Skinner
He said, "I really think there is a great desire for that." But we, you know, listened to what he had to say, but we already were selling to wineries and stuff.
Karen Skinner
And then the other thing I think is important too, uh, sometimes the chemicals can be pretty expensive, and sometimes if you order together, if you don't have such a big, you know, share that, the cost plus the-
Tyler Bertsch
Did you guys do that? Did you order with other growers?
Karen Skinner
We have in years past we did and then we would save on our shipping.
Tyler Bertsch
That's a good idea.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
That's, that, 'cause that, it gets pretty costly. The other thing I wanted to say, which we had just recently started doing, I kind of briefly mentioned it, is we don't net anymore. We use the spray, and it too has... If you get a rain, you gotta get out there and spray again. But that has been such a time saver, stress reliever.
Tyler Bertsch
It works. You think it works?
Karen Skinner
And it works, as long as you do it like they tell you to. But we also put like those little, uh, balloons out there.
Jim Skinner
Fake owls, and balloons and all that, to deter them.
Karen Skinner
And, and uh, gloves and so with- on, on cloudy days like today, you gotta watch. But on sunny days, no problem, because those birds don't like that glittery stuff or whatever, the metallics. That-
Tyler Bertsch
So one thing that's worked best for me is a falcon kite.
Karen Skinner
Yes.
Tyler Bertsch
Believe it or not, that has been probably the biggest bang for the buck thing I've ever boughten. 'Because it's- I got it off Amazon for 50 bucks or something like that, and that thing flies out there and it scares the daylights. Now when there's no wind that's the problem.
Tyler Bertsch
That's why you gotta have some backup.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
But what chemical do you guys use? Or what- do you know the brand or anything?
Jim Skinner
We, uh, what's the name of it?
Karen Skinner
Avion. A-V-I-O-N.
Jim Skinner
Avion. Yeah.
Jim Skinner
I talked to, uh, uh, the guy over there, uh, Nebraska City. He's got, uh, what's his name? The, uh... He grows-
Karen Skinner
Heskett.
Jim Skinner
Heskett. Yeah, Ron Heskett.
Jim Skinner
And he's down there by Brownville. Uh, he's got a, a vineyard, some vineyards down there, and he grows grapes for this place over in Nebraska City too. And I, uh, talked to him about it, you know. He said, "I, I don't net at all. I use Avion bird spray all the time." And so I seen some photographs of kind of his vineyard that's all wide open. There's no trees around or anything. So birds would have to fly quite a ways to get to his vines, I think. So that might be...
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah, you guys are surrounded by trees.
Jim Skinner
Right.
Tyler Bertsch
So if it works here, that's...
Karen Skinner
It does work.
Jim Skinner
Well, most of the damage that I see is like up in that corner up there and then on the end rows, on the Delaware, you know, they'll nail those end rows all the time. And so I tried to put more deterrents around there to keep 'em out. Um, but, uh, it's-
Karen Skinner
And we have raccoon problem, terrible. But I read up on it, and it said to put a radio out. We did. It works. They don't wanna be around.
Jim Skinner
Same with deer. When deer comes through they want to nibble on your little shoots.The young shoots coming up, the deer will do that, and especially down here, 'cause we have a couple apple trees down there.
Karen Skinner
Yeah.
Jim Skinner
I'll run an extension cord down there and put a radio down there. It does-
Tyler Bertsch
That's a good, that's a good idea.
Karen Skinner
A radio.
Jim Skinner
It has helped.
Karen Skinner
Yeah. Make sure it's a radio-
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
... that has diff- you know, voices and songs and... Of course, most of them do anyway.
Jim Skinner
Right, yeah.
Karen Skinner
But the variety, they don't like it. And it's kind of funny, 'cause when we first started our vineyard, they said to put out Irish Spring soap and pans.
Jim Skinner
I did that too.
Karen Skinner
Like, uh, metal little pot pie pans.
Tyler Bertsch
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
So we did, put them all around. That didn't do a thing-
Jim Skinner
No.
Karen Skinner
... except make the vineyard smell good-
Tyler Bertsch
(laughs)
Karen Skinner
... with the Irish Spring.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
And people said it worked, but it didn't work for us. And then I also have a recipe that I make It's horrible, make sure you make it outside, but it's a deer repellent spray.
Tyler Bertsch
Does it work? Oh, I'm gonna hit you up on that-
Karen Skinner
It stinks so bad.
Tyler Bertsch
... 'cause I've used the Deer-B-Gone or whatever, and that's not cheap.
Jim Skinner
No, it's not. Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
So I want to get that recipe from you
Karen Skinner
Okay.
Karen Skinner
Yeah, it's downstairs in the box, isn't it?
Jim Skinner
Uh, if you want to go.
Karen Skinner
I can go down and get it, and you can just take a picture of it.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
You make it outside on your, uh, grill or whatever. It stinks the house up. Plus, it takes a little while because you cook it and then you have to put it in, um-
Jim Skinner
You have to strain it.
Karen Skinner
Strain it and just let it drip. Otherwise, it's gonna clog up your sprayer.
Jim Skinner
Your sprayer. Spraying is awesome.
Karen Skinner
But it works fabulously.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Karen Skinner
It really does.
Tyler Bertsch
Well, I appreciate it. There's a lot of golden nuggets in there. If you guys, if I can have your permission if I can post this on the website so people can learn from this.
Karen Skinner
Oh, sure.
Jim Skinner
Yeah, not a problem.
Tyler Bertsch
There's a lot of valuable information there.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
Tyler Bertsch
Well, we appreciate it!
Karen Skinner
Oh, absolutely.
Jim Skinner
Yeah.
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